When You're In the Mood for "D&D," Just Not Specifically D&D - Mythras Classic Fantasy, Fantasy AGE, Cypher System And Other Weird Variants

 I've had lengthy times where I grew tired of D&D and wanted a break from fantasy, which then led to me running other game systems in different genres such as Mothership, Call of Cthulhu, Savage Worlds and so forth. More recently I have been facing a stranger issue: a desire to run something D&D-like, just NOT actual D&D. I mean, I am running and enjoying D&D....but I know it is less because of the current edition rules at this point than it is because of the campaign I am running, and the sundry plots and characters; the game is succeeding despite itself, not because of itself. Indeed, I realize that my main problem with D&D 5.5 (2024 edition) is that it's frankly just more of the same....lots of noteworthy changes, but none of them shake it up mechanically beyond being a horde of slight iterations. It is like they patched D&D 5E, and you notice the improvements, but ultimately also notice its still just the same game. To run with a video game analogy: they added in ray tracing an patched a loot exploit so it looks cooler and plays more smoothly, but its still the same game you've already played to death.

This has gotten me looking in to other options for a fantasy fix which mix up the mechanics sufficiently that I can feel a breath of fresh air even if I am still running some archetypal adventuring campaigns. I've explored Tales of the Valiant and while I am eager to test it out as a GM, it's still got the same problem D&D 5.5 does; it's just a variant on the thing we've been playing for the last ten years already. Pathfinder 2E Remastered is also good at "D&D like" so it's a bit closer to what I want....but in many ways it is the closest direct competitor to D&D, and has its own unique range of issues when it comes to applying it to classic D&D-ish fantasy without being D&D. 

This leads me to a few other systems I've considered, as follows:

Mythras Classic Fantasy - this just recently received a huge upgrade with the new Mythras Classic Fantasy Unearthed expansion. If you don't know what this is, it's a hack of the Mythras Fantasy RPG (which is itself a valid alternate to D&D) in which it retools the game's chassis to accomodate classes and a very "D&D like" level structure, along with a D&D-derived magic system and plenty of monsters and magic items. It is Mythras at core, but reframes everything to feel like D&D. Specifically it feels like an emulation of AD&D 1st edition, just now powered by a BRP-derived game engine with lots of skills, D100 mechanics and an extra heap of lethality. Cool stuff. 

Pros: Classic Fantasy is a very robust reimagining of D&D style play in a more gritty chassis powered by Mythras; it is well supported with a bunch of modules, main books, the Classic Fantasy Imperative (a ORC-license restatement of the rules as a stand along product, though note you will still want the original Classic Fantasy book for Mythras as it holds all the monsters and more goodies), and the new CF Unearthed book. Plus, you can use all the other Mythras material with it, it's fully compatible.

Cons: I always run into a stumbling block with Classic Fantasy, which evokes for me two things: AD&D and Mythras. I then leave myself wondering if this mix of chocolate and peanut butter really work, or if it makes more sense for me to simply play straight Mythras or straight AD&D. I also prefer BRP Itself, over Mythras, another issue entirely. Also, the special attack rules for Mythras can lead to player decision paralysis, a very common issue I encounter when running Mythras.

Fantasy Age 2E: Green Ronin quietly released Fantasy Age 2nd Edition last year and I am not sure anyone noticed. It's since released a Cthulhu Mythos and Technofantasy expansion on Drivethrurpg, and the 2nd edition is largely backwards compatible with prior books. Fantasy Age, if you did not know, is derived from the Adventure Game Engine (AGE), originally created for the Dragon Age RPG, and this is a full-on iteration designed for use in whatever setting you want. It is class and skill based (though they use focus and talent terms), and is in many ways similar in structural design to D&D with leveling up, escalating hit points and lots of fast paced, hard hitting magic. The latest edition is more robust than the 1st edition Basic Book, too.

Pros: You get a similar experience to D&D but will find Fantasy AGE allows for a lot of design flexibility; its a great system to make unique looking characters, and is pretty easy to GM as well. It has ample support material and the core book is pretty robust.

Cons: Some people find the high starting hit points take getting used to; combats will last longer, sometimes when you don't expect them to. The stunt system unique to Fantasy AGE can lead to a bit of decision paralysis for players, but I find that a few sessions will get them very used to it. Also, because its core design was meant to emulate a video game, it can sometimes feel a tad video-gamish.

Cypher System - Godforsaken and Others: Cypher System has had a lot of expansion into the realm of fantasy gaming in the last several years. The Revised Cypher System rules have plenty of content, but if you add Godforsaken and the Cypher Bestiary you have all you need for a robust D&D-ish campaign but powered by the deceptively simple point-pool system of Cypher. They also have the Planebreaker setting, a new Diamond Throne update and the Ptolus City Setting out for Cypher, most of which were originally settings for D&D 3rd edition or later 5th edition, so its got support for D&D-like campaigns baked in.

Pros: Cypher System is a resource pool game system with player-facing die mechanics which is incredibly easy for the GM to run, and you can simultaneously make very archetypcal D&D-themed characters and also go as off the rails in PC design as the GM is willing to let you. It de-emphasizes a lot of the nitty gritty mechanical elements of D&D, but with the cost advantage of making story and collaborative engagement top priority.

Cons: Cypher System, despite being so cool, can be hard for classic RPG enthusiasts to wrap their heads around, as the pool resource mechanic is counterintuitive to more simulationist rules systems like D&D. Cypher System also works best for GMs (and players) who enjoy improvisation and ad hoc developments, and the game really shines when this is leaned into, but flounders badly if you rgroup does not embrace it.

There are some other ones to consider too! In brief:

Basic Roleplaying, Runequest and Magic World: BRP has a nice new edition update out, and it just got a GM's screen. It's plus is BRP is the best system ever, but its downside is they don't have a single unique modern resource for providing fantasy gaming content. The core book has some material, but its not robust enough. A few years ago before Chaosium changed ownership they published Magic World, which does do exactly that, but its only available in PDF and POD (and had a lot of errata). It's not a bad option, but it is a shame that BRP's latest edition does not have more setting/genre resources out for it, and it continues to get neglected in favor of Runequest. Runequest, in turn, is a great alternative to D&D if you want to really experience something different in the world of Glorantha, but a difficult setting for most to parse out and make their own. If you just want a system to power your own creation, Runequest will disappoint. 

Dragonbane: This is a hybrid reimagining of what the original BRP Magic World of the 80's (from the Worlds of Wonder Boxed Set) became in Sweden, also called Drakar och Demoner, and it was brought back with a Free League flourish, now based on a D20 mechanic instead of a D100 mechanic. It's actually a really neat alternative to OSR D&D gaming, but it needs a bit more support to serve as a broader tool set for enterprising gamers. It also has a problem of looking and feeling like a D&D alternative, but in fact being much closer to its BRP roots and therefore being rather deadly to any game group which plays it like a straight up D&D dungeon crawl. I'm keen on trying this one out eventually, but it's not going to scratch the "D&D but not D&D" itch for me.

Savage Worlds Fantasy and Savage Pathfinder: actually these would work pretty danged well for scratching the "totally D&D feel but not D&D at all" itch. Pathfinder for Savage Worlds brings in classes and themes modeled from Pathfinder 1st edition and is not so wed to Golarion that you can't hack it for your own thing. Add in the SW Fantasy Companion (revised for SWADE) and you have essentially all you need to do everything I've been talking about. The top reason it might not be as ideal is because Savage Worlds excels at being multigenre, and I have found that I enjoy it a lot more in a modern or SF setting than fantasy....though that said, Savage Pathfinder rocks hard. The other problem with Savage Worlds is if you associate hit point bloat and long, protracted combats with the D&D experience, then Savage Worlds may not work for you! It's too fast.

There are others I have not mentioned....GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and the reissue of The Fantasy Trip both come to mind, for example. 

One of my game nights needs a change of system soon. I think it's probably going to be Pathfinder for Savage Worlds, but I might talk them in to a short campaign in Dragonbane just to see how it feels. I am super keen on Fantasy AGE at some point as well, but I really want to absorb the nuances of the system to feel comfortable with it, first....and that requires time I rarely have these days!

Monday Blaaaagh!!! Kickstarter Book of the Righteous; Plus: 13th Age and Mythras

I remember when I had lots of time to do stuff....sigh. Anyway! Some random stuff this Monday:

The Book of the Righteous Kickstarter

Green Ronin has their Kickstarter going for the 5th edition version of Book of the Righteous. It's not to goal yet but as of writing has three weeks to go. I'd be tempted, but I'm not a long-term investor, and the physical release is listed as March 2017. That's a long ways off....and if there's one thing I've learned it's that the farther out a Kickstarter date is, the less likely it is that I'll still be interested in a given Kickstarter by the time it finally shows up.

And that's assuming it isn't delayed!

I'll wait until this is available for print release. The fact that the release date is so far out tells me this is a "fishing for interest" Kickstarter....work has not begun, and they are testing the waters. This is not great; Kickstarters are essentially turning in to a market testing strategy but are only receiving the feedback from people who apparently have a lot of disposable income to throw away on hypotheticals. I'd absolutely buy this book, but I'm not going to hand off $45 in the hopes that the book is worth it at the end, that I still am interested, or that nothing disastrous goes wrong between now and then. This isn't a vote against Green Ronin, don't get me wrong; I'm just refusing to buy in to the idea that Kickstarter is the best way to handle a release like this. 

Other Stuff

Classic Fantasy/Mythras: if I took all the blog hits on these two subjects as a sign, I should really be doing more content for both. I'm still waiting patiently for CF to get a physical release (preordered) so that puts a tiny crimp in prepping content related to it, but anytime I do a blog tied to something The Design Mechanism (or Chaosium, for that matter) is behind I get four to five times the normal hits. Interesting. And good news for BRP-based games.

13th Age: Pelgrane Press released High Magic & Low Cunning, which is a sort of "encounter book" of highly customizable scenarios with an emphasis on combat in unusual locales, each tied to the various icons. It's a great book, really interest in premise and design. More interesting is the map pack, which contains a ton of high quality, full color maps you can use with the book. My pre-order arrived last week and I really advise 13th Age fans to check it out. Heck, the maps alone would be useful to any GM who likes to mix and match.

Saturday Looms....What Will We be Playing....

I've thrown a lot of ideas out to my Saturday group as we prepare for a new phase of gaming. I'm thinking, though, that I know what I'm going to run. I feel like a "fantasy, but different" mood. Not necessarily a "rules" different, but a "weird setting" sort of different.

Mythras and Classic Fantasy is on hold until I get the book sometime in June. After that, it's probably what I'll push for next campaign on Wednesday.

13th Age continues to intrigue me....and may well end up being what we play, but I'm pushing hard to see if people will give......Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea a shot. I've got a real interest in running AS&SH straight up, using the setting in the core boxed set as-is*, with the modules published so far --which means starting with Rats in the Walls since it's the only level 1 adventure for the game I have.

But 13th Age has a lot of interest, too. I admit....the only issue holding me back from fully jumping back to 13th Age right now is my current dislike of the onerous icons system, which is both cool and limiting in weird ways. People do run 13th age without the icons, or mitigating their relevance....but really, I feel like they're sufficiently important to the game's flavor that it makes more sense to save it for when I am feeling inspired.

But the weird classes, world and entities of AS&SH? Those are inspiring me a lot right now....

*The minimalist setting is perfect, just enough to jump into with, but not too much to hamper my own development of the Lands of the North Wind.

Classic Fantasy for Mythras (the game system formerly known as RQ6) is in the wild - first impressions review

It's still in pre-order status, but you can get the PDF for free and then the book ships around June 1st. I've pre-ordered by copy, and am now hopeful based on the contents that Classic Fantasy will work for my own dark purposes....especially now that it looks like Magic World won't ever see it's other supplements come to fruition! You can pre-order the book and PDF here (PDF downloads immediately).

Here's the final cover:

Classic Fantasy provides a sort of skeleton on which you can drape the Mythras system in the veneer of classic D&D-style dungeon delving (and other assorted adventuring). That means it's the usual BRP-style system, but it gives you all the plug-ins needed to keep the game focused on a certain style. But because it is actually Mythras (RQ6) you get a much more involved and interesting take on that D&D experience. I'm already kinda sold on seeing if I can get my group to dive in to it, ASAP.

Here's what it contains:

Character Races: the usual littany (human, elf, half elf, gnome, halfing, dwarf, half-orc)

Classes (framed as professions with more stuff): bard, cavalier, cleric, druid, fighter, magic user, monk, paladin, ranger, thief, thief-acrobat, berserker.

Combat: I need to read through this section but cannot help notice that it's loaded with tactical minuatures-based combat options. Interesting....

Magic: this takes classic BRP/RQ/Mythras magic and turns it on it's head. We've now got arcane and divine magic that much more closely resembles D&D style quasi-Vancian magic in feel. There are 82 arcane spells and 77 divine spells. It looks like we get enough spells to mimic D&D up to around the 8th to 10th level of caster experience.

Monsters: there are about 80-90 odd monsters here. It's a literal "who's who" of D&D Monster Manuals, and if you combine this with the RQ6/Mythras core, maybe add Monster Island, you'll have pretty much every possible beast covered. CF does not duplicate any monsters from the core rules, unless the D&D version requires a new entry to handle its variant style. I'm really quite impressed....this is a major hurtle for many GMs who (like me) might want to pull a setting in to Runequest but have to do some footwork to add in beasts introduced from D&D campaigns. Now the work is all done....need some dark elves, lizard men, liches, stirges, bugbears or classic D&D trolls in your Mythras game? Here they are.

Treasure: this section is loaded with D&D-esque treasure, includes treasure tables, and is pretty much going to feel very comfortable to D&D fans. Those who like RQ6, Magic World and other systems but wished the design supported more treasure will be pleased as well...although how well the system works if pulled from it's proper place "in situ" remains to be seen.

Other stuff:

Passions: this is basically an alignment system for Classic Fantasy.

The Planes: there's a whole disucssion of this after treasure. It also talks deities a bit, and identifies the deities of "Greymoor" which is presumably totally "not quite Greyhawk and not quite Blackmoor, but the result of what happened after Mordenkainen's time-space accident." (that's just my take)

Wandering Encounters: there's some decent charts in the back of the book.

Indexed: it looks decently indexed to me in the PDF, which matters to a lot of people.

.....Okay so my initial impression is that this is the proper answer to people who really like the D&D style and feel of gaming, but maybe aren't so thrilled with specific aspects of D&D, and much prefer the more realistic skill system, combat, hit mechanics and injury rules of Runequest/BRP. This product is dramatically better than the Classic Fantasy Monograph which was released many years ago for BRP.....don't even bother thinking about that book in comparison to this one; this new edition is complete, very tightly designed, and incredibly efficient at what it is designed to do.

It also looks like it was carefully designed with the idea that you could grab any classic 1E AD&D module and run it with this system with minimal or zero conversion.

I'll probably talk more soon and may try to set up a scenario or two with it for the blog. Probably, almost certainly, going to try and run this with the regular group ASAP. It does such a good job at blending the feel of D&D with the style of Runequest that I am simply blown away at the fact that the new Classic Fantasy pulled it off.

I'm thinking maybe my Altavir setting I keep trying to start off the ground might find a good home with Mythras's Classic Fantasy. Hmmmm.

Mythras and Classic Fantasy - Design Mechanism Ramps Up

The Design Mechanism has announced that Runequest 6's name change will be Mythras going forward. The name is derived from "myth" and the deity Mitra/Mithras which is pretty cool. Announcement here.

They also have a preview of Classic Fantasy up for review (here). I admit, I wasn't a fan of the Classic Fantasy Monograph for BRP....it needed some work, and felt like a shoehorn of D&Disms into a BRP framework. That said, the preview for this new version has me intrigued, and hopeful as well that it will be more complete and focused (for example, it has a bestiary and treasure section, arguably important components of dungeon delving).

Part of me still feels like Classic Fantasy is an exercise in "missing the point" of BRP systems....but on the other hand, if it's done well then I really can't argue; a focused "refinement" of the RQ6/Mythras rules aimed at hitting that D&D sweet spot with a D100 system sounds kind of cool, actually.

OH! And did I mention I like the font in CF? Let's hear it for normal fonts!