This is a thing, a very exciting thing:
First off, the adventure path Rise of the Runelords is widely regarded as one of the better overall D20-based adventure series, it fits a niche in 3PP for D&D (or Pathfinder in this case) that is reserved for classics in D&D like Against the Giants and Tomb of Horrors.
Second, this project is codifying a well defined focused fantasy ruleset that lets you do very specific Pathfinder/D&D style fantasy in Savage Worlds. The flavor of these systems over the years have been a key reason I stick with them for my own game worlds; they fit the specific epic fantasy style I need for the sorts of worlds I like to run stuff for.
Now, having said that, thematically merging the style of epic Pathfinder gaming with the Fast! Furious! Fun! mechanical rulset of Savage Worlds is something every Savage Worlds gamer has tried to do over the years, and we have all noticed just how good that fit is. The problem, of course, is evident in the countless fan made modules and 3PP supplements trying to offer up content to support really good fantasy gaming in a D&D style with a Savage Words ruleset.....lots of it, but nothing necessarily all encompassing or cohesive enough to rival the sort of direct support Paizo and WotC provide for their systems.
With this Kickstarter, it looks like at long last there will be a version of Pathfinder that would let me definitively use Savage Worlds to run the fantasy worlds I normally lean on Pathfinder (or D&D) for. This is a huge deal, seriously....Savage Worlds is a much faster and more efficient game system than either D&D or PF, and it's a system that can accomplish this sort of gaming but without the mechanical baggage that the D20 systems come with.
So yeah...color me excited, and I'm in at the $300 level! This is going to be great.
Interesting. I've been reading your blog for a good bit, and really enjoy your take on most things (especially the Cypher system). But even as someone who plays and appreciates both Pathfinder 2E and Savage Worlds, I'll admit that this combo is one that I personally just don't grok.
ReplyDeleteTo me, being a crunchier system is inherently part of Pathfinder's identity. Elements like carefully balanced encounters and the implied GM/player power balance are a key part of what Pathfinder *is*. Take those away and you're just not playing Pathfinder any more. Meanwhile, Savage Worlds doesn't have -- or want to have, as far as I can see -- those kinds of things.
Nor do I see Golarion as an amazing setting I'd want to take someplace else. It has always struck me as a well-executed but ultimately kitchen-sink setting that grew out of the need to support Pathfinder's mechanics. Even Rifts, which is gonzo and all-encompassing by design, seemed like a much better fit for Savage Worlds, especially because it stood to benefit so much from the (vastly superior) mechanical framework of Savage Worlds. Not so Pathfinder 2E, a game that, aside from some unfortunate imprecision in the expression of the rules, is very solid mechanically.
YMMV, of course. I just found it interesting given that our opinions of this particular projects is so wildly divergent.
I agree with you in that from the perspective of a Pathfinder fan, I would find this less interesting. My interest is from the angle of a Savage Worlds fan: this product will provide a wealth of specific fantasy adventuring content that Savage Worlds has only come close to previously in the Fantasy Companion sourcebook (which is missing a SWADE update), and thematically it will provide an adaptation of the specifics of the Pathfinder (and Golarion) setting to Savage Worlds. This isn't going to replace Pathfinder 2E for me, which I very much love as a system, but it will mean that if I want to do Savage Worlds fantasy using one of my D&D-styled settings, it will now be trivial to do so.
DeleteA key thing to consider, of course, is that a lot of people like how D20 System mechanics from 3.0 through PF2E work in principle, but not in execution. I think those players tend to lean on Savage Worlds and other systems as their go to games, and for those players this will be a valuable resource. I'd love, for example, to see what Savage Worlds could do with a Fifth Imperium setting/adaptation of Traveller, not because I don't love Traveller for both its mechanics and setting but rather because I do, and I think a version of it with Savage Worlds mechanics and trappings would be an interesting experience. Likewise, as you point out with Rifts, you can do some great campaigns with it using Savage Worlds, but that doesn't detract from the value of the core Rifts system for those mysterious people who like it.
Last comment....to give some contrast....I'd have been just as excited if they had said this was a "D&D 5E Savage Worlds" crossover. The reason, of course, being that what I am most excited about here is a thorough adaptation of that style of fantasy gaming to Savage Worlds, not so I can replace D&D (or PF) but rather so I can enhance Savage Worlds with more stuff.
Got it; thanks for the insight. I'm also keen to see the Fantasy Companion get a SWADE update. :)
DeleteYeah I'm really hoping they get the genre books updated soon. A counterpoint to my comments is that not all fantasy needs to be D&Desque, and the Fantasy Companion can help people craft something that specifically doesn't feel like it's just D&D in a different suit....
DeleteI really like Godforsaken for the that reason (though I admit I'm also keenly interested in the forthcoming Ptolus and Diamond Throne reworks, which are obviously D&Desque). As a fan of D&D since the 1980s who only recently discovered Cypher, I'm really trying to wrap my head around the various ways it can be used to do epic/high fantasy.
ReplyDeleteGodforsaken is a nice resource. I'm using it for my Realms of Chirak campaign right now, powered by Cypher, and it's essentially letting me build around more complex social/political/story dynamics and move the focus away from combat (though to be fair the first few sessions have been nothing short of all-out brawls at times, so Cypher can handle that just fine too).
DeleteIt sounds like you're definitely further along the Cypher learning curve than I am. I'm jealous. :)
DeleteI ran my first Numenera (and 2nd Cypher) session a few weeks ago on Roll20. I loved how easy it is, but I definitely found myself trying to run it like D&D, if that makes sense. I had the same struggle when I tried to run Dungeon World. There is definitely a shift in mind-set required, on the part of all the players, not just the GM.
That is 100% true....this is my sixth Cypher System campaign, and I cut my teeth on a science/fantasy mashup over the last two years, a "lost colony world" that fit neatly in the Numenera universe. Once I let myself adjust and lean hard into the intrinsic weirdness and mystery that Cypher and Numenera support, it started to really gel and as a result I've pretty well made it one of my top systems for go-to gaming (next to CoC and PF2E).
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