When You're In the Mood for "D&D," Just Not Specifically D&D - Mythras Classic Fantasy, Fantasy AGE, Cypher System And Other Weird Variants

 I've had lengthy times where I grew tired of D&D and wanted a break from fantasy, which then led to me running other game systems in different genres such as Mothership, Call of Cthulhu, Savage Worlds and so forth. More recently I have been facing a stranger issue: a desire to run something D&D-like, just NOT actual D&D. I mean, I am running and enjoying D&D....but I know it is less because of the current edition rules at this point than it is because of the campaign I am running, and the sundry plots and characters; the game is succeeding despite itself, not because of itself. Indeed, I realize that my main problem with D&D 5.5 (2024 edition) is that it's frankly just more of the same....lots of noteworthy changes, but none of them shake it up mechanically beyond being a horde of slight iterations. It is like they patched D&D 5E, and you notice the improvements, but ultimately also notice its still just the same game. To run with a video game analogy: they added in ray tracing an patched a loot exploit so it looks cooler and plays more smoothly, but its still the same game you've already played to death.

This has gotten me looking in to other options for a fantasy fix which mix up the mechanics sufficiently that I can feel a breath of fresh air even if I am still running some archetypal adventuring campaigns. I've explored Tales of the Valiant and while I am eager to test it out as a GM, it's still got the same problem D&D 5.5 does; it's just a variant on the thing we've been playing for the last ten years already. Pathfinder 2E Remastered is also good at "D&D like" so it's a bit closer to what I want....but in many ways it is the closest direct competitor to D&D, and has its own unique range of issues when it comes to applying it to classic D&D-ish fantasy without being D&D. 

This leads me to a few other systems I've considered, as follows:

Mythras Classic Fantasy - this just recently received a huge upgrade with the new Mythras Classic Fantasy Unearthed expansion. If you don't know what this is, it's a hack of the Mythras Fantasy RPG (which is itself a valid alternate to D&D) in which it retools the game's chassis to accomodate classes and a very "D&D like" level structure, along with a D&D-derived magic system and plenty of monsters and magic items. It is Mythras at core, but reframes everything to feel like D&D. Specifically it feels like an emulation of AD&D 1st edition, just now powered by a BRP-derived game engine with lots of skills, D100 mechanics and an extra heap of lethality. Cool stuff. 

Pros: Classic Fantasy is a very robust reimagining of D&D style play in a more gritty chassis powered by Mythras; it is well supported with a bunch of modules, main books, the Classic Fantasy Imperative (a ORC-license restatement of the rules as a stand along product, though note you will still want the original Classic Fantasy book for Mythras as it holds all the monsters and more goodies), and the new CF Unearthed book. Plus, you can use all the other Mythras material with it, it's fully compatible.

Cons: I always run into a stumbling block with Classic Fantasy, which evokes for me two things: AD&D and Mythras. I then leave myself wondering if this mix of chocolate and peanut butter really work, or if it makes more sense for me to simply play straight Mythras or straight AD&D. I also prefer BRP Itself, over Mythras, another issue entirely. Also, the special attack rules for Mythras can lead to player decision paralysis, a very common issue I encounter when running Mythras.

Fantasy Age 2E: Green Ronin quietly released Fantasy Age 2nd Edition last year and I am not sure anyone noticed. It's since released a Cthulhu Mythos and Technofantasy expansion on Drivethrurpg, and the 2nd edition is largely backwards compatible with prior books. Fantasy Age, if you did not know, is derived from the Adventure Game Engine (AGE), originally created for the Dragon Age RPG, and this is a full-on iteration designed for use in whatever setting you want. It is class and skill based (though they use focus and talent terms), and is in many ways similar in structural design to D&D with leveling up, escalating hit points and lots of fast paced, hard hitting magic. The latest edition is more robust than the 1st edition Basic Book, too.

Pros: You get a similar experience to D&D but will find Fantasy AGE allows for a lot of design flexibility; its a great system to make unique looking characters, and is pretty easy to GM as well. It has ample support material and the core book is pretty robust.

Cons: Some people find the high starting hit points take getting used to; combats will last longer, sometimes when you don't expect them to. The stunt system unique to Fantasy AGE can lead to a bit of decision paralysis for players, but I find that a few sessions will get them very used to it. Also, because its core design was meant to emulate a video game, it can sometimes feel a tad video-gamish.

Cypher System - Godforsaken and Others: Cypher System has had a lot of expansion into the realm of fantasy gaming in the last several years. The Revised Cypher System rules have plenty of content, but if you add Godforsaken and the Cypher Bestiary you have all you need for a robust D&D-ish campaign but powered by the deceptively simple point-pool system of Cypher. They also have the Planebreaker setting, a new Diamond Throne update and the Ptolus City Setting out for Cypher, most of which were originally settings for D&D 3rd edition or later 5th edition, so its got support for D&D-like campaigns baked in.

Pros: Cypher System is a resource pool game system with player-facing die mechanics which is incredibly easy for the GM to run, and you can simultaneously make very archetypcal D&D-themed characters and also go as off the rails in PC design as the GM is willing to let you. It de-emphasizes a lot of the nitty gritty mechanical elements of D&D, but with the cost advantage of making story and collaborative engagement top priority.

Cons: Cypher System, despite being so cool, can be hard for classic RPG enthusiasts to wrap their heads around, as the pool resource mechanic is counterintuitive to more simulationist rules systems like D&D. Cypher System also works best for GMs (and players) who enjoy improvisation and ad hoc developments, and the game really shines when this is leaned into, but flounders badly if you rgroup does not embrace it.

There are some other ones to consider too! In brief:

Basic Roleplaying, Runequest and Magic World: BRP has a nice new edition update out, and it just got a GM's screen. It's plus is BRP is the best system ever, but its downside is they don't have a single unique modern resource for providing fantasy gaming content. The core book has some material, but its not robust enough. A few years ago before Chaosium changed ownership they published Magic World, which does do exactly that, but its only available in PDF and POD (and had a lot of errata). It's not a bad option, but it is a shame that BRP's latest edition does not have more setting/genre resources out for it, and it continues to get neglected in favor of Runequest. Runequest, in turn, is a great alternative to D&D if you want to really experience something different in the world of Glorantha, but a difficult setting for most to parse out and make their own. If you just want a system to power your own creation, Runequest will disappoint. 

Dragonbane: This is a hybrid reimagining of what the original BRP Magic World of the 80's (from the Worlds of Wonder Boxed Set) became in Sweden, also called Drakar och Demoner, and it was brought back with a Free League flourish, now based on a D20 mechanic instead of a D100 mechanic. It's actually a really neat alternative to OSR D&D gaming, but it needs a bit more support to serve as a broader tool set for enterprising gamers. It also has a problem of looking and feeling like a D&D alternative, but in fact being much closer to its BRP roots and therefore being rather deadly to any game group which plays it like a straight up D&D dungeon crawl. I'm keen on trying this one out eventually, but it's not going to scratch the "D&D but not D&D" itch for me.

Savage Worlds Fantasy and Savage Pathfinder: actually these would work pretty danged well for scratching the "totally D&D feel but not D&D at all" itch. Pathfinder for Savage Worlds brings in classes and themes modeled from Pathfinder 1st edition and is not so wed to Golarion that you can't hack it for your own thing. Add in the SW Fantasy Companion (revised for SWADE) and you have essentially all you need to do everything I've been talking about. The top reason it might not be as ideal is because Savage Worlds excels at being multigenre, and I have found that I enjoy it a lot more in a modern or SF setting than fantasy....though that said, Savage Pathfinder rocks hard. The other problem with Savage Worlds is if you associate hit point bloat and long, protracted combats with the D&D experience, then Savage Worlds may not work for you! It's too fast.

There are others I have not mentioned....GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and the reissue of The Fantasy Trip both come to mind, for example. 

One of my game nights needs a change of system soon. I think it's probably going to be Pathfinder for Savage Worlds, but I might talk them in to a short campaign in Dragonbane just to see how it feels. I am super keen on Fantasy AGE at some point as well, but I really want to absorb the nuances of the system to feel comfortable with it, first....and that requires time I rarely have these days!

Tales of the Valiant and what it Needs Next to Get Adopted by My Group

 I really, really want to play Tales of the Valiant. I am annoyed that D&D 2024 is sufficiently interesting that it is hard not to also want to play it (and is the easier sell, of course); so Tales of the Valiant is mostly getting "behind the scenes" love from me as a GM while I wait for that tipping point when I think that it will also be an easy sell to my players. Really, it needs two things from my perspective to become the next ruleset we try out: more subclasses for players, and Roll20 support. We currently have neither!

Right now, the TotV Player's Guide has 2 subclasses per character class. This is in contrast with D&D 5.5 which manages 4 subclasses per class in the PHB, and also has a tome out on dmsguild.com right now which updates the remaining 69 subclasses out there. So D&D 5.5 has a clear advantage here. Kobold Press has been catching up with ancestry options (well, ancestry and lineages in the parlance of TotV), with two PDF resources out adding a plethora of previous species to the mix, but nothing yet for new subclasses. 

The other thing TotV needs to get adoption rates going (for my group, at least) is Roll20 support. I know they are committed to Shard Tabletop, but last I check Roll20 support was promised and it's for better or worse where many people staked out their VTT gaming ecosystems. I also happen to have TotV set up on Alchemy Tabletop, which is a really cool and weird alternative...and I find both Alchemy and Roll20 more intuitive for myself than Shard....Shard has a great player interface, but does not have the sort of resources I would need as a GM to run games; it seems like it is better designed for pre-published modules. I mean, you can probably run homebrew on it well enough, but honestly my old brain can't figure it out; Roll20's more broadly applicable interface has ruined me a bit.

Anyway, the point is.....Tales of the Valiant is really close to adoption in my group, but as seasoned old players they need more variety in choice than the core books currently offer, and most of my players are not in the habit of manually updating existing 5E stuff to match TotV's conversion requirements, so honestly if someone could just take the time to put out a new book of subclasses or even a conversion document that does the work it would be simply awesome. As GM I do not fret this stuff, I have all I need for the game now, and then some! But for my players? Yeah we need more stuff for them.

As GM though: there's Frog Gods' new Tome of Horrors update which is surprisingly good (it brings in a lot of unusual stuff to BFR/TotV not seen in a while), and Legendary Games has popped out some BFR compatible books as well, including Mythos Monsters, Sea Monsters and some modules. There are other books out already, though maybe not at the ideal pace....and a lot of scenarios, which is not (imo) what TotV needs right now half so much as new subclasses and stuff for players.

So! What I guess I am saying is: TotV can stand on its own two feet if it can ramp up content in a manner consistent with its Big Dog competition. It will forever be the niche game played by D&Ders who are no longer infatuated with WotC, but it can totally own that market....if it can give their largely older, veteran base more material to work with. Just my thoughts!

EDIT: One other thing Tales of the Valiant badly needs: A forum!!! If I want to look for useful Pathfinder 2E advice I can go to Paizo. However there is no unifying forum I am aware of for Tales of the Valiant (I believe they have some sort of Discord but....referring to my prior comments about being an old guy....I find Discord a rough place to have a standardized forum, ime). Right now, if you look for places to talk about TotV, good luck! You mostly get lengthy topics on other forms where people try to talk about TotV and then get trashed by people who dislike it for various petty reasons. So yeah....I really think the Kobolds would benefit from setting up some sort of forum for their product, where fans of the product can actually converse and exchange ideas and content. Just saying. 

....And if I am wrong, and there is a good place for this, can someone point me in the right direction?

D&D 2024 - Multiple Sessions In

 We're multiple game sessions in to using the D&D 2024 PHB and DMG, and I have to say: they work pretty well. We have encountered enough new changes in both rules and working parts to merit considering this a "D&D 5.5" (though of course any other RPG out there would consider this a 6th edition), and it holds its own so far against its immediate competition: Pathfinder 2E Remastered and Tales of the Valiant. Of the two main competitors, Tales of the Valiant has the biggest hurdle, as its selling point is now "modified classic 5E" and will appeal to people who dislike change for its own sake, I suppose? I don't know...I like TotV, but I gotta say....D&D 2024 holds its own just fine. 

Pathfinder 2E Remastered tried hard to divorce itself from the D&D OGLisms that previously defined it, so I suppose its merits as an alternative are that it is "D&D-styled fantasy gaming, without any of the D&D trappings." This is a selling point for some people (along with the more detailed mechanics), but that's destined to be its own niche, and Pathfinder's divorce from the OGL is ultimately going to keep it from having any real potential to grab market share from D&D again. 

I am especially interested in seeing how the next Monster Manual shakes things up now. I am, admittedly, more interested in seeing if D&D 5.5 can maintain this momentum next year. WotC is a monolith in the RPG industry, but people forget that its really Hasbro. Without their owners, WotC would probably be a lot closer in size and scope to Paizo or Kobold Press (well, except for MTG I suppose...)

So if you're wondering where things have shaken out for my groups: we're pretty well sold on D&D 5.5 and it looks like that's where will be at for the duration. I am playing in a TotV game, and I do have a very intermittent PF2E game online which I GM, but for my weekly regulars, we're hip deep in the new 2024 books and enjoying it. 

The Cost of a Hobby - Kickstarter Strategies for the Consuming Backer

 I had a brief exchange with a Kickstarter creator for a product I backed, then a few days later (well before it was ready to close) decided to back out on. He asked why I backed out and I explained the problem from a consumer/backer stance: the product was not overly expensive (about $70 for two books....specifically Dragonbane books for the Lone Wolf setting) and I am interested in it. But a couple issues prompted me to back out: the first being it was scheduled for November 2025, and I have learned, time and again, that backing a Kickstarter you are interested in today does not equate to it being a Kickstarter you will be excited for a year or more from now. That is, of course, assuming the project is not delayed; about 75% of the Kickstarters I have backed are usuallly delayed a few months or even a couple years. 

The second problem I pointed out to him is that when a Kickstarter has a big ask and a distant date, I know its not a project that has effectively started; its a project looking for money to get off the ground. This means there's no written text ready to go, no artist on board yet, no editor, no playtesting. The KS is effectively advertising a concept to backers willing to take a risk on it happening. Other Kickstarters I have backed, the most successful ones (imo) are the ones that have maybe only a couple months to completion after the Kickstarter is done. These are projects which are practically ready to go, and the publisher/author is using KS to build interest and sales before the release, or maybe the bulk of the work is near completion and they just need that last funding push to pay for art/printing or something. These Kickstarters are great - they reflect a commitment ahead of time, and get a product out within the window of interest for the prospective consumer/backer. Examples of this (with kudos) go to D101 Publishing (Newt Newport), Matt Finch with Mythmere and Steve Jackson Games (with their smaller KS's at least).

In any case, the point is that if I'm going to back something, years of backing other Kickstarters have taught me that I need to look for scenarios where the KS is just "the final push" and not "ground zero." Ground zero requires a lot of commitment way down the road, and in a twist, the few publishers I might consider backing are also very good at getting those products out to retail once released so backing the KS becomes more a matter of convenience or solidarity than anything else. Steve Jackson Games, Monte Cook Games and Pinnacle Entertainment are all examples of publishers using Kickstarter to start off products that I know will appear eventually, but the motivation to Kickstart them is low for me because I am confident their product will eventually arrive and be purchasable by me down the road, assuming I am still interested in it. And if it turns out they fail? By not backing I am not out of the product if it fails.

There are a couple other strategies to being a backer to consider. For example, I always look at what the creator has done before; if they have no prior Kickstarters? Unknown risk, don't back it. If they have lots of Kickstarters that seem to be incomplete? Bad sign. As an example....the creator of the Lone Wolf books for Dragonbane seems to have at least one Kickstarter that appears to be 7 years overdue (and people are very pissed about it). Even with my two prior items of logic, this alone is a huge red flag against backing another Kickstarter by the creator, when it is clear they can't finish the existing projects.

Another peeve I have about backing things is unrelated to Kickstarter, but rather its competitors,  Backerkit and other crowdfunding venues. Notice how it is atypical of a creator on those venues to even put a deadline in place? Yeah, that's a deal breaker right there. At least with Kickstarter it requires you to provide a month and year on when to expect project completion. 

Honestly....I'd love to back the Lone Wolf adaptation for Dragonbane for what it is. I just can't reconcile all the risks involved, and based on the creator's prior history, I now realize it is probably destined to be a 2031 release, to go by his other projects.